Author Topic: Game Balancing Issues  (Read 9506 times)

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Hamish

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Game Balancing Issues
« on: January 28, 2012, 11:36:07 PM »
How about a thread on game balancing issues? I'm all for making dweller a bit tougher, nothing really masochistic but enough to make me weigh up my options a bit more often. A few tweaks like fewer scrolls of recall would make quite a difference.

Dweller admin

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 08:18:41 PM »
Good idea! I am fully aware that the game is in need of balancing to make the classes equally difficult to play. And as you say there are a lot of things that can be done in terms of game balance. Maybe generate fewer of some items or adjust their prices? Maybe some monsters are too easy? Too hard?

Thot

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 12:54:45 AM »
Sometimes I found that the random wandering monsters come too often. So if I just walk a round in a room, an another monster comes out of nowhere.

And trolls are extremely hard (for me at least). With warrior I need to trap him, so we don't push each outher far from the other, so they don't regenerate as much. With the ranger I tried to hunt them down while they were near to a torch and they didn't see me yet. With wizard? Teleport. If there are too much troll, teleport myself. Simple and easy. Maybe this is why I died at the end. :)

Dweller admin

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 01:52:55 PM »
Monsters far away from the player should never react to what the player does, but monsters can spawn from the stairs. Maybe that is what happened?

The Trolls are challenging for all characters, especially the ranger and wizard. I think an important thing to keep in mind is to not engage every monsters. Sometimes it might be better to find another way or as you said Thot, teleport the monsters or yourself. I think more options to avoid monsters would be a good addition. Maybe you could knock monsters unconscious, make them fall asleep, encase them in ice etc

GnPTurtle

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 02:58:41 PM »
I think more options to avoid monsters would be a good addition. Maybe you could knock monsters unconscious, make them fall asleep, encase them in ice etc
Sounds like a good idea, but if you incapacitate an enemy, I'd make sure it's can't be used to make an encounter too easy, like killing the unconscious monster. Asleep would be neat. They'd wake up if you hit them. Maybe lasting long enough to flee a bit....
GnPTurtle

Thot

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 09:27:14 AM »
Monsters far away from the player should never react to what the player does, but monsters can spawn from the stairs. Maybe that is what happened?
Yes, I think, they came from the stairs. Problem solved. :)

I think an important thing to keep in mind is to not engage every monsters. Sometimes it might be better to find another way or as you said Thot, teleport the monsters or yourself.
Yes, but if you're surrounded by 3 trolls next to the goblin king's room without more teleport-wand, you'll need to find out some other solution. :) (At least recall some times until you can buy some new book/wand.)

Dweller admin

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 08:25:28 AM »
True, being surrounded by Trolls is never a good idea :-)

Hamish

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 10:47:37 PM »
Perhaps if the troll only self healed when there was space between it and the player (like after it bashes you) , you would have scope to maneuver it or yourself into a corner and wear it down.

Dweller admin

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 10:51:29 AM »
Perhaps if the troll only self healed when there was space between it and the player (like after it bashes you) , you would have scope to maneuver it or yourself into a corner and wear it down.
Good point. I'll see if I can adjust spell vs melee priority for the AI. I've added a ticket for this: http://dweller.lighthouseapp.com/projects/88670-dweller/tickets/54-adjust-ai-use-of-friendly-spells-such-as-heal

X

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 02:35:34 PM »
Perhaps if the troll only self healed when there was space between it and the player (like after it bashes you) , you would have scope to maneuver it or yourself into a corner and wear it down.
Good point. I'll see if I can adjust spell vs melee priority for the AI. I've added a ticket for this: http://dweller.lighthouseapp.com/projects/88670-dweller/tickets/54-adjust-ai-use-of-friendly-spells-such-as-heal
I kind of like the idea of the troll only healing if there is a space between him and the player. However, this is really only fixing the problem for melee. While in my experience they aren't too difficult for mages/archers to kill, it is still annoying when he is standing there healing and you are just hoping that your RNG produces a higher damage number than his heals.

I think a good solution for this might be to change his heal in one of two ways:
1) Trolls have the ability to heal to full once, but then they can no longer heal. Make it so this triggers after a certain damage threshold. This would give the player a chance to kill him without healing, but still retain his ability to have more HP than it initially appears that he has.

2) Add a cooldown for the heal spell, probably 2 turns. Meaning if he heals one turn, he needs to wait 2 turns before healing again. If you take this option, I would suggest increasing the heal to make sure the difficulty of these mobs aren't being reduced too much.

Right now they are a fun enemy, but the healing needs to be tweaked in order to take some of the "less fun" aspects away from them.

gunn0r

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 04:54:27 PM »
I just started playing 3 days ago and met my first two troll with an archer character.
Unfortunately, I am not able to kill them, no matter what I do.
I remembered that fire stops trolls from regaining health (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Trolls), is that the same in Dweller?

X

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2012, 05:12:04 PM »
I just started playing 3 days ago and met my first two troll with an archer character.
Unfortunately, I am not able to kill them, no matter what I do.
I remembered that fire stops trolls from regaining health (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Trolls), is that the same in Dweller?
Unfortunately that's not the same here. My most recent fight with a troll was with a Mage, and I was constantly casting fireballs (which he was mostly shrugging off with his heals!).

I would say that would be a good suggestion to counter the troll... however, I don't think everyone has an ample opportunity for fire effects, so it would really only be a counter for the Mage class, who already has a fairly easy time with the troll (assuming your random numbers beat his healing random numbers) :).

Dweller admin

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 08:02:06 AM »
Judging from the comments here the Troll is a fun but challenging opponent that is in need of a bit of tweaking. I will tread carefully so that Trolls won't become push-overs.

teprac

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 11:17:43 PM »
As mentioned by gunn0r, traditionally trolls in many fantasy games do indeed have high regeneration, but are weak to damage of type fire (and sometimes acid), which will often disable their regeneration abilities. This likely draws from the lore of Hercules' battle against the Hydra, where he cauterized the stumps to prevent the heads from regrowing.

This can incentivize carrying some sort of method of dealing fire or acid damage to deal with regenerators.

ZiZNaK

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Re: Game Balancing Issues
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 01:59:29 AM »
Traditionally trolls fear fire so... is there any incentive to burn them at the current time?? I tend to let a troll be a troll til he tries to be a troll to me.  I leave em alone. 
Also, since monsters spawn by stairs does that mean that hanging by stairs and killing stuff is better than going down til you get hurt and need to recall?  I usually try to go for higher exp monsters but im thinking maybe I can chill near a moderately difficult level's stairway and get the same effect with a bit more safety.
When in doubt.  Scroll of Recall